hi everyone.

i play several acoustically-based instruments, and in the last three or
so years have become relatively fanatical about electronic music, and
would like to begin composing in this milieu.  (note that, outside of a
basic midi-keyboard, i have zero equipment, and i have no software (i
use an apple).)

about 18 months ago, someone sent me a link to this site, and i've
basically been salivating ever since. the ui seems completely intuitive,
and the work that all of you have been posting is really quite beautiful
and inspiring.

i'm very interested in purchasing one of the new models.  however (and
here's where i have to beg y'all to be gentle with me), i basically want
to know whether i'm getting in over my head.  i have read a few of the
forum topics, and i have essentially no idea what anybody's talking
about.  i'm not a luddite, but i am a total novice.

what kind of programs would i need to run one of these beauties?  how
expensive (really) is setup going to be? are there tutorials? (and,
again) am i in over my head? i live in new york, and i'd be willing to
travel to philly to have someone walk me through the process from a-z.

thanks in advance.

getting started with a 40h, or any of the upcoming products, has been 
the simplest setup for a control interface that i've ever dealt with. 
if you go to the 'resource' section of this website, there is a section 
for installation (on OS X or XP).  it is a step-by-step operation, and 
that is all it takes!

most of the application created by people (which are also posted on the 
'resources' section) are very intuitive also.

If you do run into problems of any kind, it will be with only a few 
applications.  Some take a little bit of tinkering.  But, the majority 
are very straightforward.

If you ever need help, the forums are a great place to ask for it.  The 
community here is supremely helpful.  Also, contacting the monomes 
themselves is another option.

To sum up, if you are looking for a place to get started, this is it. 
Beyond the price of the unit itself, the price is free for the most 
part.  You can do most anything without spending another dime.

But, look at the installation instructions, and you'll see just how 
simple everything is......

also, it lets you grow along with it.  when i got the box, i just 
started learning C++ (like, 2 weeks worth of "hello world"-style 
experience), now about a year later im writing software for monome (i 
DID have Reaktor and max experience though).  its one of the only 
peieces of gear that has actually gained more value as i shift 
directions in what i want to do with my music career (meaning, going 
from primarily a musican to primarily a music app programmer and live 
performer on the side).

if you just want to make music in a sequencer app via a midi keyboard 
and softsynth/sampler, the monome devices may not be worth it.  but (and 
i suspect you fall in this camp), if you are into performance with a 
computer, its hard to beat monome.

as janijanietc said above, its absolutely free to use any of the Max/MSP 
patches.  same for chuck.  Reaktor is not free.  also, Max/MSP isnt 
really free, if you want to program you have to buy it.  and, while i 
suspect you eventually will want to make your own patches, for starters 
its easier to use premade ones (i firmly believe that the box and mlr 
alone are worth the 40h's asking price, same with the new ones).  when 
you feel lik eyou want to learn some programming, you can always demo 
max/msp for a month, which gioves you plenty of time to see if it is for 
you.  but, to repeat, this is unimportant at first, the premade patches 
are all excellent.

i dont think you are over yor head, you sem lik e avery intelligent 
person and im sure you will get it all (the learing process can be fun, 
also).

i have been loving electronic music for a few years now.

i finally grew out of wanting an mpc2000 and just, JUST, like 5 minutes 
ago, stumbled across the monome. i would say i really got into elec. 
music when i first heard daedelus. i always wanted to make my own box 
like he did, but i am not tech savy at ALL!

i heard you may start making kits(please do), but i was wondering if 
there was any way for me to go about building one myself? books, online 
help, or is it a really painstaking task to build one? i'd have no 
problem with getting the keys and box materials, but it's the inside 
that i can't understand.

i have to create a senior project at my school, and i thought what 
cooler way than do it on something i love. ..electronic music with a 
hand made "monome".
BY THE WAY....what's the name for this type of instrument?

THANKS FOR THE HELP!-alex

i believe monome actually built his (daeadalus') box.

i dont know what to call it.  whenever im trying to communicate about it 
to my wife, i use the term "button-box" (but, shes no electronic 
musician either, so saying VST or MPC to her would just make her stop 
listening!).

daedelus uses my first prototype from way back, yeah.

about learning electronics, sparkfun just posted some great tutorials:

http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/hdr.php?p=tutorials

halfway down, "starting electronics tutorials" or something


if you're don't have any experience with programming, i'd also suggest 
getting into max/msp or chuck or reaktor or something, as the reward is 
more immediate.

excellent, just what I need to improve my soldering skill

thanks brian

>i believe monome actually built his (daeadalus') box...

that was me, btw (on my wifes computer, when will i learn to log in!).

"i'm very interested in purchasing one of the new models.  however (and
here's where i have to beg y'all to be gentle with me), i basically want
to know whether i'm getting in over my head.  i have read a few of the
forum topics, and i have essentially no idea what anybody's talking
about.  i'm not a luddite, but i am a total novice."

there is no word on pricing for the 64 or 128 or 256 yet, but i imagine 
you'll be spending around 500-700 dollars for the box itself.  if you 
can live with using the patches available here, you dont *need* to buy 
MAX/MSP.  but if you want to do some patch creation, be prepared to 
spend 500 for that.

there are other options like PureData and Chuck, but most people are 
working with MAX/MSP and MAX/MSP offers the most complete documentation 
for people who are new to programming.

"i play several acoustically-based instruments, and in the last three or
so years have become relatively fanatical about electronic music, and
would like to begin composing in this milieu"

what kind of music are you going to make?  how do you currently record 
and do you want to play live with your monome product?  and what 
instruments do you play?  are you going to give up your former genre or 
are you looking to integrate the two?  or do you just have some money 
burning a whole in your pocket?

first off - thanks for everyone's terrific responses to my query.  this 
is one of the first forums i've visited where community is actually an 
appropriate descriptor.

to gunboatD:

man, do i wish i just had $ burning a hole in my pocket!  no no, as you 
suspected, i'm looking to integrate the two genres as i'm finding the 
acoustic-guitar-dude scene getting a bit tiresome.  (that's a pretty 
enormous understatement.)  looking to create something that exists 
between the worlds of juana molina, new buffalo, and gutevolk.  so, yes, 
a live component is critical, as is being able to juggle multiple 
instruments simultaneously.

so - trying to absorb all of this (and this is a question for everyone): 
chuck, reaktor, max/msp.... these are all programs (running in the 
vicinity of $500) that i would use to create my own patches using 
(presumably) a midi controller of some sort, and then i would use the 
monome (approx $500) for sequencing/playback?  again, i'm a virgin here, 
so no laughing if that is a dumb question.

also, if you are a student, you can get Max/MSP at a student discounted 
rate, which I think is $250.

check www.cycling74.com to be sure though.

reaktor patches aren't as friendly as max patches, in that you need 
reaktor to run them.

you could also use a monome device as both the midi controler AND the 
sequencer/playback device. it can control many many things.

including the world!

I couldn't afford Reaktor at first, so I just got the monome and then 
downloaded the Max/MSP Runtime (free version) to play the patches from 
this site.  Plenty to learn and make just doing that.  It also helps if 
you have a MIDI synth for the non-sample type patches, but that can also 
be had for free - for example Google "SynthEdit" - and you'll find an 
arsenal of soft-synths that speak MIDI - for free.  Poke around the web 
and you'll find all kinds of cool free stuff.  I haven't really begun to 
dig into what's out there for Max patches but Max has been around for a 
long time and it has a huge community so I imagine there's tons of cool 
patches and synth emulators and stuff to be had from their site, also 
for free.

I think kid-sputnik put it best when he said that just having a monome 
and mlr was worth the $500 cost of admission.  I did end up buying 
Reaktor ($225 shipped from novamusik.com) and I'm just beginning to 
scratch the surface of what it can do.  Eventually I will also get 
Max/MSP because so many people use it and it's sort of the standard for 
this type of thing.  Also, with Max you can write stand-alone apps that 
anyone can use whereas w/ Reaktor they have to have the software.  There 
are only a handful of Reaktor instuments that already work with the 
monome (written by kid-sputnik), but they are really cool.  And then 
there's a ton of amazing instruments that aren't written for the monome 
but will teach you more than you ever thought you could know about 
synthesis and granular synthesis and sequencing.  And you can also use 
the monome as a MIDI controller with Reaktor, you just have to set it up 
yourself.

Note that I did experience some frustration at first, getting everything 
configured and working, but the help from this site is great and got me 
up and running in a few evenings.  I had the advantage of being pretty 
familiar with MIDI and fairly technical in general but otherwise I was a 
babe in the woods.

I feel like the monome has injected me with a new excitement about 
music, AND programming.  I, too was getting a bit bored with the 
singer-songwriter routine - all my songs were starting to sound the same 
to me.  Now, creating unique sonic tapestries from samples, having a new 
way to trigger synth sounds (rather than just a keyboard), not to 
mention a new way to compose, has opened up a whole world for me.

just my 2 cents

PS: Chuck and PD are free/opensource

"looking to create something that exists
between the worlds of juana molina, new buffalo, and gutevolk.  so, yes,
a live component is critical, as is being able to juggle multiple
instruments simultaneously."

It is VERY difficult to play a 40h and a guitar at the same time, 
depending on your music.  If you use MLR and play along on your guitar 
to it, you have to work out when you will change loops.  Very important 
when youre writing verse-chorus-verse or anything that.  If youre 
working in 4/4 and you intend to play guitar on the first beat, but you 
have to change rows in MLR on the first beat, you're fucked.  Can't be 
done.  Guitar takes two hands.  MLR takes one.  Simple maths.  You're OK 
if you can work around this if you can create loop you can trigger on 
the 3rd beat, for example, and have it play through, but that doesn't 
always work with verse-chorus-verse.  Or you can play the theremin.  Not 
trying to discourage you, but you sound just like I did when I got mine. 
And I'm glad I did.  It allows you to play music a different way. 
Still, your playing style will change as you work with it.  MLR is great 
for playing back loops and you can always use the free MAX/MSP runtime 
to use it.  I believe you can still use the fake MLR software to play 
around before you buy.  Because 500 is a lot of money.

Also, think about reaktor.  Seems a little easier to use out-of-the-box 
than MAX and is less programmer-centric (ie, has a nice GUI)

Oh yeah, if you don't make your own loops, MLR and 64step really aren't 
worth it.  If you already have some kind of recording software, it 
shouldn't be a problem (I have DP, some here have Logic, others use 
i-don't-know-what).

GD

i usually make my loops in Reaktor.

Max IS more programmer-oriented than Reaktor, since reaktor has alot 
more instant gratification (ie - premade instruments and high-level 
buildingblocks).

mlr is probably not good to play while playing another instrument, i 
agree.  the cool thing about mlr over something like Ableton, is that 
mlr is alot like playing an actual instrument.  of course, in Ableton 
Live you have alt of differant FX and other cool things to play with, 
and it definately takes skill, but its more like DJin (in concept, 
although both are done very differantly).  mlr to me feels like playing 
an instrument, you have to get the timing done correct, you have alot of 
limitations to work around, etc.  i mean that in the best way possible, 
its really enjoyable and fun, its the same reason i fell in love with 
Reaktor, because it lets you make electronic music in a performance 
context while still using experimental means.

anyways, have you heard of christopher willets?  he plays guitar into a 
custom max/msp patch the samples the input and does some cool mangling 
of the sound (he calls it "folding" the sound).  this is probably more 
the direction one would have to go for using guitar in live solo 
electronic music (his patch i believe doesnt need to be controlled by 
anything but live audio input).  regardless, i suggest 1) you check out 
his music and other similar artists, and 2) still seriously consider the 
monome devices, they are just amazing to use, theres nothing like them 
out there without needing an engineering degree to make yourself or the 
need to take out a small mortgage to afford (um, lemur anyone?!)!

I seem to be in the same position as the cryfok.  Although I have very 
limited experience and knowledge, the monome was something I've been 
interested in ever since I first found out what the thing Daedelus was 
poking at really was.  As of now, although having a sufficient amount of 
acoustic instruments, I have nothing that could be used in electronic 
music except for a small m-audio oxygen8 MIDI keyboard and a dated, 
entry level version of cubase (cubasis).  THis may seem like a crazy 
wacky kooky thought, but I do not know where the music comes from. 
Everyone talks about max/msp and chuck and reaktor; is that where you... 
"get" loops? or what?
would I be able to record live instruments into something and then 
access that with the new monomes, and would I be able to create soudns 
with the MIDI keyboard?  More importantly, do these programs you speak 
of provide me with things like drum machines, synths, etc., or is 
something like Reason necessary?
Ideally, although it might be a chore, I would love for someone to just 
put theirselves in my shoes, except with their knowledge, and describe 
what is necessary to go from where I am now to someone that is creating 
music wit hthe monome. I would love to be able to preorder one of the 
new models and be confident that I will be able to use it almost 
immediately, rather than... in a few years or something.