so there seems to be a fair demand for 40h logic boards. we do have a slight overstock, but not enough to fill demand. we also need to keep a few around in case of repairs, or our own projects (like the 8x8 foot version with 1 foot square pads). so, why not a kit? the current incarnation of the logic board uses a ton of surface mount parts, which are more difficult to solder. however, most parts we're using come in a DIP (simple to solder) package. the ftdi driver does not, but they do sell assembled DIP breakout boards. so, we could very easily post a partlist that could be obtained from ftdi directly and digikey. as many of you know, we've already posted the schematic: http://wiki.monome.org/view/40hLogicSchematic so, it should be possible to breadboard a 40h without too much trouble or expense. the last difficulty is programming the chip, which requires a $50 jtag programmer. so, if people are interested, perhaps we could do this: 1. layout and produce a short run of new logic boards that take all DIP parts. 2. distribute pre-programmed atmega32 chips. people would still be responsible for obtaining the remaining parts, which is not difficult. if there is substantial demand, i could pre-order these parts and bundle them in. i'm uncertain about how much the kit or board would cost. it'd be inexpensive, around $50 i imagine. please post comments and if you'd be interested in getting a kit.
on 13.05.2007 13:01
on 13.05.2007 13:42
Very interested in kit in any form... components bundled, unbundled, chip included, not included. Anything would be awesome.
on 13.05.2007 14:32
> the 8x8 foot version with 1 foot square pads
yes!
i would definitely take the time to build one of these to use with
pLayer when it is done.
it would slaughter every other loop pedal out there.
(ok, maybe smaller than 1 foot square, but big enough for feet, yes)
on 13.05.2007 19:30
>1. layout and produce a short run of new logic boards that take all DIP parts. >2. distribute pre-programmed atmega32 chips. Yes! I'd love a kit. Even just the logic boards would be cool, esp if I could afford 4 of em. Ability to buy a whole monome in kit form minus the case would be the ultimate. w/o buttons and case w/b penultimate. I can think of zeveral applications for multiple logic board projects (besides a diy 100h). How about an 8x8 grid of lit _knobs_ which are also push-switches? How about a cube made of of monomes? Or a sphere?
on 13.05.2007 21:41
the antepenultimate is unacceptable. a kit in any form would be much appreciated.
on 14.05.2007 01:24
a kit would be quite an awesome thing to have, it would lend itself to a few other ideas of interesting interfaces.. shame i only heard about this after the last one had been sold.
on 14.05.2007 12:49
Depending on the price, but I guess that a lot people out there could use a kit for rapid-development of *any* sort of atmel-based USB device? (I mean: not only limited for monome-things...)
on 14.05.2007 16:44
GREAT idea! the low price really invites experimentation. i vote for bundled parts, as many times there is a minimum order for components...we all don't need 99 "spare" components when the schematic only calls for one. less waste, and less gas spent on shipping things around. any chance of a similar approach to the 100h?? you guys are awesome...see you in san mateo. dp
on 14.05.2007 17:10
Yes please, I'd definatly 100% order two kits. In an ideal world, it would come with all the parts...but beggars cant be choosers sign me up
on 14.05.2007 18:19
40h as kit? Absolutely. You know we'd be into it. :)
on 14.05.2007 22:17
i have a 40h and would still love to get in on a kit!
on 15.05.2007 02:26
Absolutely interesting idea, in any form that you could provide! I'd be ready to order one as soon as available.
on 15.05.2007 17:12
Are you kidding?? I don't like it when people play with my feelings :} This would sit so dope besides my custom-made-from-kit Theremin! Matter of fact, can you sign me up right now. I mean it. My name on the list. Now, please ... umm, pretty please. :d -h
on 15.05.2007 18:38
Since I missed the boat on purchasing a 40h, I would be all over a kit. Or two. (Or more.) While it's theoretically possible that I could save up the cash for a 100h, and the prototype looks stunning, I think that I actually like the modular form factor of the 40h better.
on 15.05.2007 23:54
Please! Please! Please! Oh gawd Please! I'll love you long time!
on 16.05.2007 11:18
""the last difficulty is programming the chip, which requires a $50 jtag programmer. so, if people are interested, perhaps we could do this: 1. layout and produce a short run of new logic boards that take all DIP parts. 2. distribute pre-programmed atmega32 chips."" considering the chip programming it would be great to be offered a programmed chip and schematic/parts list to enable custom 40h 'monome's of totally different shapes and sizes !!!! one size does not fit all... would love to have enough to start expermenting without tooo steep a learning curve... so yes yes yes yes to kits and/or pre-programmed chips
on 16.05.2007 16:14
I would go for one kit, that's for sure. I definitely prefer having the ship pre-programmed with the kit. In any case, it is possible to reprogram it later, so having it already programmed should not raise problems to anyone. Julien
on 16.05.2007 17:58
oh me please please plese :) aidanomorrison (at ) hotmil.com
on 17.05.2007 12:57
Yes, I'll buy one too. I have an arduino board, so I could probably use that to programme the atmel chip. So maybe a kit in different configurations would be ideal. But I'll take what's going.
on 17.05.2007 13:42
almost done laying out the circuit. should be able to get a rapid proto by early next week. i'll continue to post progress. so, preliminarily what i'm thinking (this is subject to change) is to distribute: 1. blank logic board 2. programmed atmega32 chip 3. blank board plus everything you need to populate it just a reminder, but this is for the logic board only. we have no plans for distributing grid-buttons boards, because we're no longer producing the 40h keypads. we still have surplus keypads we haven't unloaded yet, more on that later. it'd be helpful to start collecting links/sources to button/led solutions.
on 17.05.2007 15:00
these will probably be the ones i will use: http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=7835
on 18.05.2007 13:21
O.K. so the kit would include: Logic PCB and all the components that attach to it including the programmed atmega32 chip? we would need to supply the buttons, L.E.D.s, the Grid PCB and enclosure?
on 18.05.2007 17:06
GIMME GIMME GIMME GIMME GIMME!!! What a great generous gesture, thank you!! PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE!!!
on 18.05.2007 21:55
Also deeply interested in the Kit and looking forward to the Footcontroller!!
on 19.05.2007 07:30
foot controller? wow, this is exciting. Yeah, I'm very interested too.
on 19.05.2007 18:29
I would really like to buy one of those kits if possible in the future, it could fit me better as for i would like to set it with other parts to make it with a touch sensitive floor that i'm working on. Thanks and best regards to you all.
on 20.05.2007 03:14
sounds great! any type is cool. still hoping for a fully built 40h tho.
on 20.05.2007 16:03
Sign me up. A full kit would be amazing if possible. I'll settle for a half price 100h though...
on 20.05.2007 19:11
Please count me in as well. I would love to get one of these kits in any form. I didn't know about menome until the makers fair this weekend, too bad I found out after the 40h's are all gone. I have some projects that could really use a menome box in any form. If anyone has an old dusty used menome box in any size they don't need anymore, please let me know. Thanks! Dave
on 20.05.2007 22:48
The kit definitely sounds great. What kind of price are we looking at? Whats the 100h going for.. the footcontroller? Definitely want this to happen!
on 22.05.2007 11:57
the board is getting prototyped now. should be back in a couple of days and ready to test. i'm starting to assemble documentation. more news soon once kelli and i make a few more decisions.
on 22.05.2007 15:04
only slightly off topic... brian, what are your thoughts on a 100h logic kit? i guess i could always build 4 40hs and uh... get a usb hub.
on 22.05.2007 15:08
Wow, i been reading this thread since it was first posted. And i can't believe i haven't said COUNT ME IN TOO!;)
on 22.05.2007 20:16
I'll take one please! I can be contacted at: dmhorton at gmail dot com Thanks!
on 23.05.2007 01:04
I would love a kit! if all the necessary components were included that would be great!
on 23.05.2007 12:57
any thoughts on pricing? i'm certainly interested in this.
on 24.05.2007 15:47
i am interested in this. i dont really know much about the assembly needed...but this would be a great reason to learn. i use live for improved looping and i really wanted a 16h so this is a nice possibility.
on 25.05.2007 13:44
I'm interested in a kit as well. Take my money, please!
on 25.05.2007 16:31
I would love to get a kit. I'd make do with just the boards, but I would love to be able to get a bundle. I've already got something that I put together with a USB keyboard brains, but the LED feedback would be very useful, and I handily used buttons with integrated LEDs. Thanks, Ian
on 25.05.2007 18:38
BRAVO!! on a very elegant straightforward design, the ftdi and maxim chips are PERFECT!! The code looks great too!! I set out to make my own monome with hopes of releasing all the documentation so more people can make use of this great platform. I've drawn up a logic board schematic in PCB123 software with the sparkfun FTDI/USB breakout boards and easy to solder DIP parts on a 2.5"x3" board. An order of 6 is $43/board, an order of 50 is $9 per board. I could also make a PCB for the button/LED board to integrate the 'ghosting diode' as well as the tri-color LED from sparkfun (a non-bus powered enhancement?) the code makes sense I have a programmer, I have the time and some money to burn in the name of art-science! BUT there's the famous buttons. Sparkfun makes it look like their buttons are the same ones, they're not. I would love to work towards making the monome a completely open source project independent of any soul sourced parts but it seems like the buttons were special requests by monome.org. 1 - I'd love some buttons. :) 2 - How can we make them more available to the general public, they're the achille's heel of this thing being completely open source. Please feel free to contact me via e-mail, I'm very willing to help and make electronics for a living. I'm ready to go but stuck at the gate without buttons!
on 25.05.2007 23:06
kit's pretty much done. we'll be selling grid boards and keypads in addition to dip solderable logic guts, all parts included. i'm still writing up tutorials, patience everyone. i estimate we'll start taking orders at the end of next week and shipping the following week. hey tonedeft, we'd love to see a true tri-color. by all means run your own board. please don't undercut our plans to sell a kit, however. we're trying to make a very modest living here. open-source hardware is a tricky place to exist. we're hoping it continues to work out for us.
on 26.05.2007 00:15
No problem mang, I fully support the monome peeps qutting their day jobs, you already did all the hard work and I/we appreciate that. If there's anything I can do to help please feel free to contact me. I have no interest in making this a business, I want to make one myself and help others to do the same. If/when I get a tricolor going I know where to send the design. ;)
on 26.05.2007 09:26
This kit is starting to sound really nice. I can't afford a 100h, but perhaps I can build one 80h :)
on 30.05.2007 20:15
Hell ya!!!... Sign me up... Let me know when and where!!!
on 31.05.2007 15:34
Yes please! I want a kit - just the logic or (preferably) with bundled parts!
on 02.06.2007 02:33
So this kit would just include the boards and logic? Anyone planning theirs already? What sites have buttons, LEDs, cases, and whatever else I'd need? I'd like to start planning a partner for my 40h. :)
on 02.06.2007 22:05
Hello I would be interested in said kit also. Regards Krzysztof Szychowski
on 03.06.2007 00:29
I'm checking this page like an e-bay addict to see when to bid. My precious,
on 06.06.2007 00:29
word, that sounds sweet. I'd be interested in that.
on 06.06.2007 12:07
I am most interested. Actually if I am going to go through the trouble to put one of these together, I think I would want to add an XY pad or some faders even. Oh wise Monomes, can you tell me if there would be any additional power left on the USB bus for adding extra things. What devices would have a realistic chance of working if added to the design?
on 06.06.2007 18:18
power left over on the device depends on how bright of leds you use, by means of how much of a voltage drop they have and how you set the current-resistor to drive them. use of the auxiliary inputs requires next to no power. the accelerometers, for example, require very little power.
on 06.06.2007 18:21
so am I right in assuming I can add four [optical] encoders per logic board... ?
on 07.06.2007 13:52
edit... I had some questions but you laid out the encoder deets wonderfully on the web site. cool. btw you should know that you're a legend for putting all this together.
on 09.06.2007 04:38
I would like to get both the logic board and keypad kits. Please put me on the list.
on 10.06.2007 02:33
i am way more than just interested in the kit. i always wanted to figure out how to make my own style of monome, but i thought it would be much cooler if i could go through the learning experience of putting it together with my own buttons and make my own box. PLEASE CONSIDER GUYS!
on 10.06.2007 02:34
PUT ME ON THE LIST PUT ME ON THE LIST PUT ME ON THE LIST THANKS!!!!!!!!
on 12.06.2007 14:20
How feasible would it be to use discreet switches and LEDs instead of the keypad? As much as I love the purity of the 40h, I'd also be interested in putting together a controller that is more narrowly purposed as an interface for Ableton Live (e.g. would have a bank of discrete buttons and LEDs for scene and clip launching, above a set of faders). I'd of course use additional h/w such as the Doepfer circuit boards to interface w/ the sliders.
on 12.06.2007 14:28
@ Gordon: you might also want to consider using the midibox os and kits for your purposes: http://www.ucapps.de/midibox_gallery.html It would also be nice to interface their components with the monome button kit.. I'm working on a custom controller with an Serial LCD, a few rotary encoders and the monome button grid (still have to order that though ;) My hardware will be based on the Arduino NG with some extra IC's for multiplexing, serial communication and MIDI output.
on 12.06.2007 15:22
gordon, what do you mean by discrete in this context? application / function specific / unprogrammable? each button can already be programmed "discretely," by which i mean independent of every other button on the grid. to make it application specific, you just need a sort of software shell that translates the serial message from the 40h to abelton. I am a litte confused about what you're asking.
on 12.06.2007 15:56
gordon - Either way, the answer is yes but you should watch some more videos. The monome products are a completely blank slate, there is no 1 way to use them and until you download software the users have made you can't do anything with a monome. It's like a Behringer BCR2000 in that they're both a collection of controls and lights that mean nothing until you assign something to them (Ableton Automap aside.) I think this thread http://forum.monome.org/topic/928#new shows someone doing what you're looking to acheive. Overall the monome is a great platform for tweaking any which way you want, change out the keypad for buttons, add sliders, an accelerometer, knobs, change the LED colors and placement.
on 12.06.2007 23:14
tone is correct. check out the thread with the custom tiny unit. buttons are buttons, leds are leds. we decided to sell the keypad kit, but you by no means need it. finding your own buttons and leds will work great, and could even be more fun if that's your thing. the logic kit does all of the work.
on 12.06.2007 23:35
the midi box kits are really nice, BUT one great thing about monome is the use of serial data instead of Raw midi. for ableton control, though, midi might be more appropriate. ive seen some controllers on their site made by Traktor users that looked amazing! also, their kit based on the OPL3 looks rad, but thats another forum entirely...
on 13.06.2007 00:00
I disagree, it's a different way of working than we've seen and it's about time. MIDI is a slow 32kbaud 25 year old standard, the serial interface with the monome is much much faster. Serial data can do everything midi can do, midi cannot do 1/10 what a serial interface can because it's too slow and is limited by a very specific protocol (16 channels, note data, sysex data, RPN, NRPN, program changes and CC#s), serial data is WIDE OPEN for tweaking. As for getting data from point A to point B, serial wins. MIDI isn't a USB standard supplying power to the 40h. MIDI takes two cables, serial takes 1. Look at the applications listed here: http://wiki.monome.org/view/WeShareInformation-2 MIDI won't work with those. How do you use the 40h with Ableton? http://wiki.monome.org/view/Tutorial40hAndAbletonLiveXp <-- windows http://wiki.monome.org/view/Tutorial40hAndAbletonLiveOsX <-- Mac The thing with the monome tech is that you download FREE runtime apps from MAX/MSP, Chuck, Pd and others, those translate serial data to midi, or just about anything else you'd want. The 40h is completely configurable, watch some videos, it wasn't until I saw people using them different ways that I understood what it all meant, I thought it was just button presses, it's anything we as a community can dream of.
on 13.06.2007 06:59
as much as i appreciate what you're trying to get across, the fact is, with a very minor max patch, most all of the applications can work with midi. im running a midibox that communicates directly through usb - so just attesting to the fact that it is quite possible, and not a huge amount of extra effort... still, monome = cool...
on 13.06.2007 07:59
Sorry if I was unclear...what I wanted to check out was the ability to use the logic board to interface with a number of individual pushbuttons and LEDs in a configuration other than a keypad. Brian nailed it--that's what I'm looking for and it sounds feasible if I wire up the "grid" myself. To the others, thanks for your feedback as well. I have indeed seen the videos and read about the applications, and am excited about the creative possibilities for the 40h itself (as well as the intangibles of the slick device). Maybe I'll need both!
on 13.06.2007 10:00
>I disagree, it's a different way of working than we've seen and it's >about time. MIDI is a slow 32kbaud 25 year old standard, the serial >interface with the monome is much much faster. as i said above, i think the native serial and serialio-based OSC are better than midi for almost everything im into, and is more flexible. the reason a midibox-based system might be more appropriate for Ableton, though is: - native support, meaning no other app - and, you can get away with ALOT more continuous controllers than the 4 analog or 2 optical analog encoders that the 40h board has. depends on how you are into working. im a total Monome evangelist, the Reaktor forum folks are probably sick of hearing about it for sure from me, but i do think that its just one of many excellent choices out there for helping to turn the laptop/computer into a real/tactile instrument.