I've been practicing a lot mlr for almost a year now : excellent app, so
much fun to play with it !

Yesterday I tried to use Ableton "à la mlr" to see how it is. I spent
the whole day jamming with Live, _40h_midi.mxb, my 40h and midi
controllers.

I really enjoyed to :
- be able to use Ableton's audio effects and VSTs/AU, and how they kept
on being perfectly synchronized to the BPM and to the audio going on.
- display long loops on several rows of the 40h.
- easily edit anything, before and after recording a session : perfect
to turn a good improvisation into a proper song / instrumental !
- play more than 4 loops at once, which is, as my music is melody
driven, a big avantage over mlr.

BUT

I really really miss a lot mlr's :
- playback tricks
- pattern recorder
- versatilty and simplicity


So I was wondering :
- what's your opinion about both methods ?
- if anyone planned to mod mlr / code a patch with pattern
recorder/playback tricks to "mlrize" Ableton a bit more ? Unfortunatly,
I'm not a patch designer myself :(

Finally : Tehn, I know you must be very busy, but would you accept to
briefly tell us what you plan to add in mlr 3 ? That would be great !

n.

ps : sorry for my aweful english ;)

i like the basics and my (also melodic) music can be used in mlr
1 or 2 trcks more would be nice but not more then that else i wouldn't 
make full use of them
i would like a monome button to change samples (something simular like 
the volume up and down)

i would like a sort effect build in in mlr which you can also alter 
during play......
with a keypress you come in effect mode and with an other keypress you 
come in mlr-mode

well something like that

nil-  how do you mlr-ize albeton?  I'm a pretty good ableton user and 
don't see how you'd do it without some prep work

I like mlr because I can drop in a whoe directory of drum sounds, pick 
some out at random, pitch them up and down (I like waaay down) to get 
various sounds then make sequences, completely random, fresh, improvised 
way of getting new sounds, and so far I've only really done drums.


separate audio outs would be cool with mlr, more sequence recording 
options rather than 2 would be fun for tweaking out on FX in Live.

Indeed, I did some prep work :
- choping my loops into little clips
- setting the follow actions
- mapping each clips to the 40h

Then I did all the audio routing I needed.

I used _40h_midi.mxb instead of Monogrid (because I can't make Chuck 
work... :S)

nil, i had the same set up for a while, but got frustrated because i 
couldnt get the lights working 100%. i got them working for momentary 
button presses only. they didnt play sequentially as the samples rolled 
along, which for me rendered this technique useless, as it gave me no 
markers or anything to tell me where the sounds were at any given time.
if you got the lights fully working, please lemme know how you tackled 
this problem.

thanks.

I guess you're using Live 5 ?
then put the attached Options.txt file in the preference folder :
/user/library/prefrences/abelton/5.xx/options.txt
it should work

My vote is for mlrized Ableton for the extra functionality. True, you 
have to set the warp points on your clips - once you get used to this, 
it takes about 30 seconds per clip.

Regarding automation - I haven't done this yet, but it's easy enough, in 
theory. You use a one-bar-long MIDI clip to record your MIDI presses in 
realtime, and then play them back. In this way, you can have many 
recordings, and even save them for future use.

As I said in the other thread regarding this topic - tehn came up with 
an amazing performance style (mlr), and this simply extends that idea - 
giving you many more options and much more power with few drawbacks. If 
you already own Ableton Live, it's definitely worth it, in my opinion. 
If you don't, try out the demo and think about buying a copy - it's an 
awesome and flexible performance tool.

crazy weird. yeah im using live 5.01 and i did that options text thing.
still its a no go. argggg.

I'm aiming for mlr, rewired and synced to ableton, controlling clips 
with a foot pedal (wish I could afford a kit so I could build a monome 
foot pedal). Hopefully I'll get it working properly with the next 
version of mlr... gonna be awsome!

I prefer using Ableton.  Although there is more prep work, you have 
greater control over the little things.  I like the fact that you can 
just as easily lay out a two-bar sample across 8 buttons, or a one bar 
sample over 16 buttons, etc. Or you can have different clips at 
different durations, so that a sample can 'pause' for a couple of beats 
or so on one button, if you like.  A lot of times I'll map a sample 
accross 4 or 6 buttons in a row, and then assign the extra buttons to 
the on/off of fx like delay or whatever.

Plus, you have to chop up the samples pretty precisely before loading 
into mlr.  I like that with Ableton, you can load up the samples without 
chopping the audio first, and then section them up as you need to within 
the clips.  And the fact that you can 'record' your performance and then 
edit it later is also quite awesome.

The one thing I REALLY like about mlr, though, is the whole two-button 
looping thing.  I suppose you can do this in Ableton by assigning 
double-button presses to launch more clips and set up a complex 
follow-action scheme, but that's taking the prep work to a whole new 
level.

I must admit, though, when I'm feeling lazy and just want to play around 
or show a friend some quick Monome tricks, I usually turn to mlr, just 
because it's such instant gratification...  Although I have gotten 
fairly quick at setting up the clips/follow-actions/button assignments, 
it still can get tedious when you're working with like 8 tracks.

c1978 - I'm using Live 5.21 with OSX 10.4.1 and Monogrid.  Once I did 
the options.txt thingy, it all worked perfectly.

wow.. i was always under the impression that the 40h could only 
communicate with live 6 and not live 5.. this opens up a whole new 
world!!! after reading this, i instantly started using 40h w/live like 
mentioned above... but i came a cross a small question... if using live 
5.01 with monomeserial in "midi-mode", as described above... is there a 
way to switch between "songs"..
like in a live show situation, if im running 7 different tracks for one 
song, and i want to move on to the next set of tracks (like in mlr) is 
there a way to do this in live 5?  i have seen the monogrid rev.2 vid, 
where the bottom row changes 'pages' via diff. midi channels (and 
chuck), but will this work with live 5?? or is this solely for live 6?

i use Live to write pretty much exclusively but for live sets and 
jamming on ideas, i still vastly prefer mlr to Live's version of it.

here's why:
- simplicity of mlr keeps ideas running instead of having to take 30 
seconds to setup something new in Live
- in Live, you can't pitch up or down an entire group of loops on the 
fly with one button press/mouse click (which would be one loop in mlr)
- similarly, you can't reverse an entire group of loops on the fly (and 
actually, Live's manual advises against ever reversing in a live 
setting)
- can't sequence your button presses in Live to create entirely new 
loops (which you can then save off, load right back in and keep creating 
new things with)

also, my version of mlr has vst's added to it, so i don't really miss 
this feature (compared to Live).  overall, it's just a much simpler but 
more beautiful and inspiring program when you're trying to jam or work 
on a Live set.  if you want to do the same set over and over, it doesn't 
really matter what you use.  but if you want to really jam with your 
loops and turn them into completely different animals every time you 
play, mlr has a lot more potential.